how NOT to make it

116 Responses to “Trust me, Voice123, you really don’t want my opinion.”

1. Hi Mike,
   My favorite thing was noticing that your profile on our site said you are a ‘Child’. Very fitting.

   http://voice123.com/mikevaughn1

   In the other one, you appear drunk by your headshot:

   http://voice123.com/mikevaughn

   If you had the class to write me privately, and keep it private, I never would have replied this way, like I will now.

   I appreciate you blogging my personal attempt to reach out to help you, as I am a voice talent too, but I don’t appreciate you spitting in my face.

   Did you ever think ahead for one simple second…that maybe someone was trying to help you?

   Maybe you lack the emotional barometer to understand this, but the reason why I said I would keep it confidential is because I know how damaging negative web content is, and I know how this is an emotional subject, but hey…You said you didnt care, and I could tell by your demo that you do not care much about what you display as professional work.

   You know what Mike?

   I want to challenge you …

   I challenge you, ‘Mike Vaughn the Blogger’, to do the following:

   1. Start your own website,

   2. Set up the servers,

   3. Run marketing campaigns, SEO campaigns

   4. Invest in pay per click campaigns

   5. Get people to post jobs on your site.

   6. After you have asked these people to post jobs, then ask them to pay you.

   Imagine as owner of a website, you are telling a buyer of your voice that he has to pay to hire you…Given your demo, why would that happen?

   Now do all of that for free…When you grow up, and come to the realization that the world does not revolve around your simple, obsessive, unstable mind, and you realize that what we do here is a job to help people…

   You write me and tell me HOW you did it all without ever accepting a penny, and still managed to run the business from your homeless shelter.

   Mike…Blogs like this illustrate why 99% of the agents wont open their doors to the 90% of talented people out there, because of the 10% of people that ruin it for everyone with their unstable, back-stabbing, needy, egotistical behavior.

   I am busy helping talent today make their money, not taking commission, and accepting that ONE guy… spit in my face for no reason. In fact, you are a waste of my time.

   When you grow up, maybe you will have the backbone to apologize.

   Good luck … not to you…but to those who hire you.

   And if they dont hire you…it is probably because they read your blog, and assume by your words that you are simple, arrogant, self-entitled, and of the belief that you deserve something because you simply exist. If I ever retire to baja…I will hire you as my maid.

   I have never said this to anyone ever in all my time, I will do it once and never again…You are a clueless fool.

   Whatever money you take in at your waiter jobs, I recommend you invest in therapy.

   You dont even have the common sense to spot someone who tried to help you.
   ps- BY the way…We do pre-screen talent before they become premium.

   If you had tried to become premium, we would have refused your money or forced a refund.

   unhappy
   April 16th, 2010

2. Odd… He asked for your “no-holds-barred opinion” and you did… I did not feel it was mean… just Straight.

   WOW, I feel his response was OH a TAD PERSONAL?

   And he did NOT really address your points… Just how hard it is to do what their site does.

   Oh well…

   Keep book’n, as I know you do!

   <3

   Sam Aaron
   April 16th, 2010

3. […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mike Vaughn, Mike Vaughn. Mike Vaughn said: Too harsh? Call me on my crap if it is: http://lnk4.us/rkcC Titled: "Trust me, Voice123, you really don’t want my opinion." […]

   Tweets that mention how NOT to make it » Blog Archive » Trust me, Voice123, you really don’t want my opinion. -- Topsy.com
   April 16th, 2010

4. Hi Sam,
   Yeah, it is personal; it’s my job. What makes you think you are above not thinking that way?

   To address his pointless, clueless, points:

   1. Your service isn’t all that helpful for voice talent with agents and managers. We get plenty of auditions, all of which we can trust are legit and will pay when booked.

   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don’t know how to work online to deal with that situation, or what it means to work online, your biggest problem is applying what you do offline to working online. On our site, you deal with clients directly. You dont have an agent to hold your hand. It is not for the faint of heart.

   2. Your service is WAY overpriced. The majority of responses I’ve heard from those using and booking on Voice123 is, “I almost broke even with the jobs I was able to book on Voice123.” Extra auditions and work just to “almost” make the subscription fee with no protection for non-paying clients? Yeah, no thanks.

   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clueless, again. Its not true. We do protect people. You just dont know how.

   You’re clueless because you dont even realize that working online is about building business relationships; not playing a game of chance. If you knew someone who worked online, which you stated you dont, they wouldnt tell you because they know its pointless.

   3. The Voice123 brand is a determent to whatever semblance of a “brand” I might have. And what I mean by that is because of the numerous active entry-level talent with very limited abilities listed within Voice123, combined with clients posting little-to-no pay jobs, including paying jobs that are consistently well below fair market rates, associating my name on your site actually devalues my accomplishments as an actor. Make sense? And yes, I recognize that there are some talented and very qualified voice talent on Voice123, just… not as many in my humble opinion.

   >>>>>>>>>> Dont kid yourself. Your opinion is not humble. It is uneducated. Big difference. You dont know the importance of a brand or what one is, simply because you have this blog; unless your brand is to display you are clueless?

   4. I’m hearing more and more stories of clients trying out Voice123, not digging the results, and heading back to trusted agents and managers. I could only imagine the headache of filtering thru hundreds of mediocre auditions as a broadcast producer versus the option of calling a few trusted talent agents and getting them filtered a bit more thoroughly.

   >>>>>>>>> What website are you talking about? It’s not ours! We have had a 1674% project posting growth since 2004 and last month, we had over 1500 jobs posted. Get your facts straight. I think you are talking about people who use a competitor of ours, but not us. But again, how do you know? When were you premium under SmartCast?

   Now, critique is easy and cheap; it’s the solutions that are difficult, right?

   >>>>>>>>> Pal, let me educate you more. Asking yourself ‘Why is it my fault?’ is the difficult question. Critiques are cheap, especially considering the source.

   1. Instead of charging talent, CHARGE the clients looking for voice talent. You listening, Breakdown Services, LA Casting, and Now Casting? This also has the wonderful side-effect of better filtering out the illegitimate clients who have no intention of paying for work anyway. Yes, I’m talking about “clients” who use demos as the final product without pay (don’t pretend like this doesn’t happen).

   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh wait! You are from LA! That explains it! The state that thinks its a good idea to hire an actor for a governor is going to tell me that ‘LA knows best’. Please.

   If you had a clue, we have had jobs posted by 20th Century Fox, Warner Bros., and also major networks and cable stations. Now, were you wise enough to spot these, or did you go after the low paying gigs, which makes you the problem…for thinking you should audition for those?

   By the way, how much work did you get on our site?

   Do you think that’s our fault?

   Or maybe…just maybe…you had no idea what you were doing online?

   By the way, out of 1500 jobs posted a month, I hear of 2 non-payment cases a month, and I am also a former fraud investigator so I do collection for talents on the site when it happens rarely. So again…you are wrong.

   2. Better yet, don’t charge anything. Just get tons of traffic and make moolah via ad sales and sponsorships. Maybe have your site be the catalyst to some giant yearly event filled with people and services willing to gauge the naive wanna-be voice actor. Oh, wait, that’s already covered.

   >>>>>>>>> Are you drunk? What site are you talking about? In fact, what are you talking about? VOICE2010? Voices? We have nothing to do with any of that, and believe me, we stay in business because we have a moral compass, and the maturity level to know we dont make ‘moolah’. We make revenue to keep operations going for voice talent. (I hope the usage of big words there didnt scare you)

   3. What about pre-screening talent and guaranty a minimum level of quality to clients. Then also, pre-screening clients and guaranty a minimum level of legitimacy and security to voice talent? You listening SAG? AFTRA? No, they aren’t are they?

   >>>>>>>>>>> Well, Mr. Clueless, have you seen your profile lately? By the way, if you think ‘being in a union’ qualifies as ‘talented’, did you know that only 2% of the 125,000 union members can afford to do VO work full-time? Funny, we have more full-time working voice talent on our site. Wake up.

   4. Show Google, Microsoft, or Breakdown Services how awesome you are currently, and see if you can’t enjoy a buy-out. The retire to Baja. I hear the property goes for cheap these days.

   >>>>>>>>>>>> That was neither cute, nor funny, and hints of a racist attitude towards people who live in that area. But hey…I expect nothing from people like you, so I am never disappointed.

   You can say I took it personal, and you would be right.

   So congrats…Out of all of your childish, uneducated, ill-informed ranting, because I lived in LA and left…because the people were just as artificial as the boobs, cheek bones, and lips, I had to move back to NYC.

   You see, we actually know how to run a business.

   And for the future…when you a chance to speak to someone who is more successful than you, maybe you should show a little respect. But I dont even think you respect yourself. You just follow people off cliffs because ‘its the thing to do’.

   Congrats on teaching the online world that you know nothing.

   How is that Sam? Direct enough? Did I miss anything? Or should I dumb it down more with crayons and legos?

   unhappy
   April 16th, 2010

5. asking for your honest, no-holds-barred opinion, as to why you have not upgraded to Premium, or why you are still standard.

   So… Feel free to let us have it! We can take it

   andrea
   April 16th, 2010

6. guess not.

   andrea
   April 16th, 2010

7. Wow. Way to class it up, Voice123. When people Googling your service stumble upon this post, they’ll see what a complete, unprofessional ass your PR guy has made of himself on a blog.

   That smacks of a company I’d want something to do with.

   You lose at the Internet.

   Josh
   April 16th, 2010

8. Wow. I think Voice123 blew it here. Be careful what you wish for. You asked for a no holds barred candid take on the service. Then got all pissy when the Mike Vaughn dude didn’t blow sunshine all over you. Hey voice 123, yes you DO look fat in that dress. Too bad you asked for an honest response.

   Kevin Cooke
   April 16th, 2010

9. Hi guys,
   Just a heads up…yesterday from 8am until 10pm EST, I read over 2500 emails with no holds barred opinions.

   I went back and looked and Mike’s was not sent to us.

   What many of you overlook is the reason Mike bothered me.

   I said, ‘Write me privately.’

   Why?

   Because I know the damage ill-informed, negative web content can do to a person trying to get a job.

   I find most who cannot work online, do not realize their own content is working against them, which leads to job loss.

   Oh, out of the 2500 responses, Mike was the only one who decided to go public about the email.

   You see, I do more for voice talent than any of you will ever realize.

   I thought appealing to everyone’s common sense and respect for online content was the way to go, but I guess…

   Congrats Mike. You alone, out of 2500, went public.

   So please dont inform me of what ‘people’ want. Our company knows what voice talent need and how to help them.

   You can say, ‘Oh bad PR! You lose.’…but really….did you address my point?

   Why did you go public with that email?

   Why do you accuse our site of things that never happen?

   I guess you just dont know, do you?

   Well, it’s Saturday, and I am working for voice talent again reading 2000 more replies…and trust me…yours looks like a kid screaming in the sandbox compared some of what I have read.

   And now I know, and what to fix.

   Sorry you will never be a part of it.

   ps – Kevin, re-stating my point…I did ask for honest opinions, but I did it with the respect for the talent so they wouldnt make a fool of themselves in public.

   But hey…listen to Mike…because out of 4500 people now (as I write this) … he went public.

   Good luck to all of you.

   unhappy
   April 17th, 2010

10. Greetings, Fellow VO talent,

    I know Steven Lowell. He truly does more for you folks than you will ever know. He is cursed with an agency where he has all the responsibility and not much of the authority. Not his fault, I assure you. He’s a good-hearted and extremely talented man who loves his talent and wants the best for them.

    Mike, whomever you are, you seem to be crass and abusive, in my opinion. I have been a VO talent agent for over 30 years and I frankly wouldn’t want you as one of my talent, as you are volatile and very much less than professional in your attacking of Steve and the company he represents. Do I agree with everything about V123? No, I do not. But, alas, they have put in their dues and helped a lot of talent and that is worth something. The DO NOT deserve to be abused as you have seen so fit to do.

    Send me your demos, Mike. I’d love to have a stab at critiquing them, as well as your business model and ethics.

    When will all of you learn that you can only create success out of successful thoughts? The only thing you can create from hate and anger and fear is more hate and anger and fear. HOW and WHAT do you want to show up in your life? YOU CHOOSE.

    Donna Summers

    Donna Summers
    April 18th, 2010

11. Perhaps when Ms. Summers finishes evaluating your ethics she may want to reflect back on her own as to when she owned Voice Casting Network (now known as http://www.voplanet.com). Numerous vo talent collaborated threatening to file a class action lawsuit against her for non-payment to talent.

    “Successful Thoughts” don’t pay people’s mortgages but apparently some
    “Successful Voices” paid hers.

    Voice Truly
    April 23rd, 2010

12. Just wanted to point out two quick things:

    1. My opinions on Voice123 are widely shared by many other VO talent.
    Proof: http://lnk4.us/fxii

    2. One must question the legitimacy of Donna Summers as a talent agent. I have confirmation from two sources that the lawsuit against her is true, she does charge talent for representation, and the icing on the cake… someone wishing to remain anonymous forwarded me this Spam-esq email from from Donna Summers.
    Screen cap here:
    http://www.mikevaughn.com/hownottomakeit/wp-content/uploads/DonnaSummers-Spamer.jpg

    MikeV
    April 27th, 2010

13. Wow. Just came across this. I’m still thinking of joining Voice123 and Voices.com since it seems to be a great place to get copy and practice but as far as furthering my career, maybe not. Mike’s response was a little strong but for the other guy to go off on him like that…maybe he gets lots of responses like this on Voice123.

    MichaelW
    May 4th, 2010

14. Jenkies.

    I’m a Premium Voice123 subscriber – for what it’s worth, I’m happy with it – and I get Mr. Lowell’s emails all the time, which do have a sincere-desire-to-help vibe. In kind, I’d like to suggest that you (Mr. Lowell) make as public an apology for this as possible before you potentially lose your job over a rash impulse.

    Regardless of whether this guy’s complaints are valid (which they are), or whether they’re worded super harshly (which they are) – you should know better than to retaliate. Ever. Privately, or – dear LORD – publicly.

    His posting of your well-meaning email does nothing to tarnish your brand. His ranting about why he dislikes your service also doesn’t do much, as many people across the Internet wilderness are certainly doing the same, over the same issues. The only brand damage done here was all you – and it’s spreading like wildfire. I heard about this from someone well-established in the industry, who herself heard about it from someone at the top – so it’s not just the bottom-web-trawlers that are having their Voice123 brand image permanently altered.

    If there is a way to contain this PR disaster, it’s by eating it. Just like you eat all the flaming in your inbox, as is your due and duty; you’ve got to eat this one twice over.

    Shocked
    May 5th, 2010

15. Harsh? Aww shucks. I was going for “snarky-sarcasm-with-a-point.”
    But ok, I’ll take super harsh. Heh.

    Thanks for the post Shocked.

    MikeV
    May 5th, 2010

16. A bad experience.

    Years ago I paid the premium subscription for Voice123.com, only to find that every single person on planet earth could audition for anything. If you were trying to get a little extra work on Voice123.com, it was sometimes very hard unless you were the first 10 to 15 auditions. No voice seeker had time to listen to the 300+ that were submitted.

    So, I let my subscription expire.

    Within the last 2 months, I began to inquire about the site again. I had many bad feedback emails from friends. I decided to chat with Voice123.com support to ask some very pointed questions about the service.
    I was assured that the “Smartcast” technology would increase the ability for me to get better exposure on auditions with all of its astounding formulas and calculation. Even on the website, the “Smartcast” information page gives elaborate explanation about its ability to match talent, sift through the voice pool and match the best talent with the seeker.

    This I believe is complete nonsense. Save your money. I have chat logs from Voice123.com that basically confirm at the heart of the “Smartcast” technology, exists nothing more than a rotation wheel for talent. If you audition for material, you get kicked to the back of the pile. Now, of course it is not THAT simple, but that is a big part of it.

    So, I complained. I got the diplomatic answer. I posted the question to the Voice123.com forum… guess what. I got kicked back to a standard member and my paid membership revoked.

    It was like censorship. I inquired, they said I violated the Voice123.com forum policy. I asked where the policy was, I couldn’t find it. Guess what, there wasn’t a posted policy. They couldn’t show me.

    Has anyone else had a bad run with Voice123.com – I am just dumbfounded at this unbelievable turn of events.

    Dave Steele
    June 1st, 2010

17. Great blog! Ð much appreciated.

    Sent from my iPhone 4G

    lost
    July 8th, 2010

18. “I did ask for honest opinions, but I did it with the respect for the talent so they wouldnt make a fool of themselves in public.”

    The only one making a fool of themselves is you.

    Lrn2Internet

    John
    August 14th, 2010

19. >> 6. After you have asked these people to post jobs, then ask them to pay you.

    Worth mentioning that almost every job site outside of entertainment works this way. The people posting jobs pay to list, or if they are working with a recruiter they pay when a person is hired.

    The fact that thousands of job sites for other industries exist and make money disputes your entire argument and proves Mr Vaughn correct.

    James
    August 14th, 2010

20. Motion to remove Steven Lowell from Voice123 as acting PRM on the grounds of best possible example of what PR is not.

    On a side note; spamming company members and asking them to sign up for premium instead of focusing on creating a service with value that allows users to choose a membership option that suits their requirements and allows them to scale with their needs, is a bad move… it taints any company credibility and shows poor businessmanship.

    Blake
    August 15th, 2010

21. Over the months, I have had some time to reflect on what happened here. So, I will just address comments and drop it:

    1. Blake, my email was not spam. It was a personal email I sent because I am a voice talent working for the website trying to make it better for voice talent. I forget sometimes that people will not view me that way.

    2. James, John, Lost…One of the most troubling things I find with voice talent working online is that 98% of them have no idea how it works. Mainly because they do not have the resources to focus on it. They apply an offline ideal to working online, which is the first key to failing while working online.

    3. I would like to note that the efforts we have made here: Last month, 60% of paying subscribers booked at least one job. Our website has grown 17% in the past year. What you read may not make sense to you, but there are underlying factors into why I did what I did.

    I apologize for how I wrote, but cannot apologize for how it made me feel to reach out to help another talent, and then see this blog.

    Such feelings, come from someone who has a big heart and believes mistakenly at times that people will understand.

    Out of the 86,000 emails like this that went out, over 50,000 people replied. Mr.Vaughn was the only one who did something like this. What you read about Voice123 makes up only 2% of all voice talent globally, but the comments sting some days.

    5. Dave Steele was given a full refund of his subscription because he did not understand how the software we use works, and chose to respond by going on an anti-campaign against us, instead of finding out why we do what we do.

    This is fine. He received his money back. That is business. Unfortunately, after the ordeal, Mr.Steele believed he was entitled to a full year subscription for his ‘hardships’. What he does not realize is that the Better Business Bureau sided with our decision, and saw no justification of his actions. Again, just business.

    Dear Shocked,
    I think a problem with people in the United States today is that they believe to survive in business they have to go through life never contradicting other people. My superiors know about this, but they also know what I am trying to do. I am sorry if it offended you. In truth, any business that believes in themselves should feel no fear about defending it, or him/herself when the comment is personally directed.

    My mistake…I took this personally. I did so because I really wanted to know why so many profiles ‘existed’ but no one did anything with them. You do not lose your job for what you do. You lose your job when you cost a company money.

    My efforts here have worked, and I am integrated in the voice over business enough offline as a talent to know why on a face to face level. I meet people personally quite often.

    Andrea, your question: I wanted to know both. Not surprisingly the two main reasons people stay standard, or do not upgrade:

    a. Dont have the money

    b. They get booked from having the profile, given our web exposure. This is something I work hard at all the time.

    I think that is what many misunderstand about working online: It is give and take on a ‘do it yourself’ website, so the answer to the question, ‘Why did I fail?’, rests solely on the shoulders of a talent. That’s a hard question to answer, but if you think asking a buyer to pay to use a site to find a talent is give and take, you simply misunderstand websites.

    Finally, Donna Summers is a good woman, and a great agent. In fact, she works for a competing website to ours, but we talk offline about the experiences of dealing with working for websites in a public forum. She stuck up for me, and had no subversive motive behind it.

    I understand offline, a talent/actor never speaks out of turn because ‘agents blacklist’ ‘you may never get hired again’ etc.

    In truth, I went through that nonsense, and that is why I like working in a do it yourself environment.

    If I seem to speak out of turn, I can remind myself that since starting here, job postings have increased by 1674%, and last month we had 90% customer satisfaction among voice talent and those posting jobs.

    It should make you think, ‘Am I judging my opinion of a site based on the opinions of those who do not understand working online?’.

    To be honest, I was really bothered by this blog, and it is why I only came back to it after seeing something on twitter.

    The chance I take…Will the 98% of voice talent who read this and do NOT comment, understand me and what I do here at this company is better for voice talent than ever before?

    No offense to anyone, but I am not revisiting this blog again. I know things from working here that I spend a great deal of time sharing with the site, and I do much more good there than here. I am actually writing this on a Sunday, when I have time.

    Good luck to all of you with whatever career you pursue.

    Sorry if this offended those, who normally know me not to be offensive, but I cannot apologize for how it feels to be stabbed in the back, and how I react to it after.

    We grow as we learn, and can only do what we know.

    I know better now.

    Steven
    August 15th, 2010

22. Oh Steven.

    I love you for sooo much for adding to today’s laughter quotient. In fact, you’ve added about 1674% more chuckles for me today alone.

    xoxoxo
    -mv

    MikeV
    August 15th, 2010

23. Know what would be a great blog spin-off to “How NOT to make it” ?
    “How NOT to do P.R”, by the Voice123 team.

    F.H
    August 16th, 2010

24. I’m a suit snob from when I managed a Mens Dept.

    mesothelioma
    August 16th, 2010

25. Hi Guy, this good blogs, thanks

    Vandal Dome
    August 16th, 2010

26. Well, Mike V. I would like to hire you for a commercial, radio campaign, I will not pay you until I know the results of that campaign are good for my business, if they are not good, I will not pay you. If you are not ok with this, no problem, I will keep looking, hopefully someone will say yes.
    Would this be working for free? Yes, but since that is what you want from Voice123 then I guess you are ok with it.

    Not a VO artist
    August 17th, 2010

27. Not a VO artist,
    I’m try to understand your analogy here.

    I think what you’re saying is that Voice123 deserves my money for trying to get me work, is that correct? I’m confused because you’ve got the client, and usage in there.

    So, normally, VO/Acting gigs are done like this:
    – client needs a talent.
    – client asks agents for samples of their talent.
    – client picks a talent.
    – agent negotiates the contract for the job.
    – agent gets 10% of that contract.
    – talent gets paid.

    Notice there’s no point where the talent pays the agent, nor does the agent pay the client. See the flow?

    In fairness to Voice123, that’s also how their process works for the most part, except that (and this is where I disagree with their model) before the very first step, talent has paid Voice123 (acting as a pseudo agent) $350+ a year just for the privilege of auditioning.

    Your (somewhat sarcastic) example is easily found on Craig’s List, and is a tactic used often to lure desperate, misguided talent with the promise of paid work that will never be realized.

    I might argue that your point is MUCH more analogous to the practices of parties who charge talent to audition.

    Not a VO artist, indeed, but… oh wait… do we know you from last year’s Futurama contract debacle?

    MikeV
    August 17th, 2010

28. Not even close, but ok, soon you will ask for agents not to take a commission, anyway, if that simple analogy gave you a hard time, no wonder you can’t understand the business model of a market place. People are afraid of what they don’t comprehend, and you are terrified. Do you think having a blog makes you an Internet expert? You can’t even open your mind to new things no wonder you are failing as a Voice over talent.

    Not a VO artist
    August 17th, 2010

29. (Note to readers: I’m fairly certain this is Steven under a different email. Call it a hunch, but regardless, NotaVOartist is right, I’m clearly “failing as a Voice over talent” as I’m sure you’d all agree.)

    Ok, naVOa, sorry, I was just trying to truly understand your point. I guess I’m too terrified to open my simple little mind. BUT… for the record I DO think agents should actually get more than 10% in some/most cases. All my current agents work very hard so I’m always happy when we both get paid. As for my lack of understanding of “the business model of a market place,” I have no one to blame but the fine folks at The University of Northern Colorado. Why they so haphazardly handed me a Marketing degree, I’ll never know. Again, your acumen is spot on. Nice work.

    But, when you ask if I think “having a blog makes [me] an Internet expert,” well… all I have to say is All_Your_Base_Are_Belong_to_Us. Yeah, take that! Bam!

    Expert status? Achieved.

    Now back to my failed VO career.

    Oooohhh, wait! IDEA! I’d love to sit down with you and Steven, face-to-face, and have an intelligent conversation over some nice Rogue Ales, or maybe some Tesstarossa wine (I sometimes have some to share). Hey, maybe we could tape our conversation on-camera, or better yet, via Skype, then use the recorded meeting to share with other VO talent for them to learn and grow from.

    What do you say?

    MikeV
    August 17th, 2010

30. I just got a phone call from a fellow VO actor in Seattle. Apparently, he’s having some difficulty with Voice123 (notice the shocked look on my face).

    He might post his story, but long-story-short Voice123 wouldn’t honor their own free-trial offer.

    Our conversation was fun and entertaining and got me thinking about this poor Steven Lowell fellow. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that’s he’s just a fall guy, a pasty if you will. A couple of google searches later to see what makes Mr. Lowell such an expert on all things VO and Internet marketing related, and I found: 1.) self-proclaimed expert status via the number of posts from Mr. Lowell, and 2.) a surprisingly large number of complaints against clients using Voice123. Apparently there are people out there using Voice123 and not paying the talent.

    AND STEVEN KNOWS WHO THEY ARE, and doesn’t go after them. His advice? “Avoid these people…”

    Here’s his post screen-captured:
    http://www.mikevaughn.com/hownottomakeit/wp-content/uploads/voice123clients.jpg

    Here’s another view of Voice123’s policy:
    http://www.nethervoice.com/nethervoice/tag/pay-to-play/

    And from Steven himself:
    http://www.voiceoverxtra.com/article.htm?id=vnocw6qn

    (I love the “trust your gut” part)

    So, to sum this up for talent wondering about trying out the Voice Pay-to-Play sites…

    It’s great if you are cool with:
    – paying $350+ a year per site to “audition.”
    – no protection if a client decides not to pay you.
    – possible denigration of your image as a VO talent.

    And on the plus side, you too can audition for $50 buyout gigs! Neat.

    And finally,
    some tribute links to Mr. Lowell so you can experience his wonderfull talent and advice:

    http://voice123.com/Steven_Lowell (note the sincere and hip commerical demo)

    http://www.voiceoveruniverse.com/profile/StevenLowell (looks like I’m not the only one with a drunk headshot).

    xoxoxoxox
    -mv

    MikeV
    August 31st, 2010

31. Cool Article! My spouse and i had been simply just debating that there’s a whole lot absolutely wrong details at this matter and also you precisely replaced the belief. Many thanks for a marvelous contribute.

    創業
    September 22nd, 2010

32. […] Trust me, Voice123, you really don’t want my opinion. The Voice123 brand is a determent to whatever semblance of a “brand” I might have. And what I mean by that is because of the numerous active entry-level talent with very limited abilities listed within Voice123, combined with clients posting little-to-no pay jobs, including paying jobs that are consistently well below fair market rates, associating my name on your site actually devalues my accomplishments as an actor. […]

    Aug 14th, 2010 4:46pm « Mike Cane's Tumblr Evac
    September 28th, 2010

33. Loving http://www.mikevaughn.com by the way, best actor website I’ve found in a long time.

    Howard
    October 2nd, 2010

34. thanks

    hmm...?
    October 12th, 2010

35. Maybe the GREATEST blog I read this year?

    anon
    October 20th, 2010

36. Great writing! You may want to follow up on this topic 🙂

    Kim

    KimtheDouchehole
    October 22nd, 2010

37. ghost ride that whip

    car rims
    October 24th, 2010

38. Mikevaughn…

    […] something about mikevaughn[…]…

    Mikevaughn
    October 29th, 2010

39. I am such a loser! I just spent the past 30 minutes of my life reading this thread. I HAVE NO LIFE!! Ha Ha… but at least I feel pretty damned good about the fact that I did not spend the money on Voice123. ((But what now??)) still confused as to how to start a voice talent career. and YES, i agree, MIKE VAUGHN- you are one talented mother fugger man! LOVED your website! 🙂

    HoLLie ANNe
    November 3rd, 2010

40. Well… It’s easier said than done, but in very general terms it goes like this: 1. Get a good (authentic IMHO) VO demo, which 2. Gets you a good VO agent, who 3. Sends you lots of auditions.

    Sure there’s a TON of other stuff that needs to happen (training, experience, studio tec, marketing, ect.) but that’s the cliff notes version.

    Email me if you have more detailed questions.
    But I am happy to have saved your $350 which can be put to much better use now.

    MikeV
    November 3rd, 2010

41. sweet

    david
    November 16th, 2010

42. Love your site man keep up the good work

    Lucienne Hanold
    November 26th, 2010

43. …..they can *handle it*. Oh my, I should say they certainly cannot!

    I was actually going to sign up with them. Now that I have seen such a bitter, childish attack. I think NOT!

    Usually when a company representative is *this* hostile. Well, they’ve done wrong many times before. Why so DEFENSIVE?? Bad Business!

    Romey
    December 8th, 2010

44. Post your profile with us… Free!

    Robert
    April 8th, 2011

45. Geeesh…. someone missed the entire point, huh?
    Way to pay attention Robert.

    MikeV
    April 8th, 2011

46. WOW , I complained about audio quality
    after uploading auditions….little Stephens Reply was So Not from a Pro and removed my premium status because I hurt his New York
    Boy feelings .,,never got a refund … guess
    the BBB is where Stephen thinks refund policy
    is made? Wacko and for what it’s worth they
    Still have my name on their site ! I had the first VO website in 1994 also had one of the only
    ISDN boxes way back in 1993 when you could
    Only lease a 3D2 box from IDB plus a DGS
    beta unit, bottom line it to you Stevey “audio quality “even in an audition has to be clean and distortion free , but somewhere along the path
    your system started garbling audio from
    Mac computers and you even admitted that
    fact , so good luck with your PR …I see I am
    not the only one who was flamed by some
    sawed off hack in a small room with no windows.

    John Driscoll
    August 3rd, 2011

47. WOW! This is the response from a Voice123 PR Manager? WTF?!!! Not only do you insult someone who was honest about why he hasn’t upgraded, but you insult Los Angeles and everyone in California.

    By the way, I’m from Los Angeles and if you weren’t busy lashing out, you would realize that Los Angeles stretches beyond your ignorant “Hollywood” perception.

    I was seriously thinking of upgrading until I came across this blog. Given your lashing out in defense answers all my questions.

    Miguel Angel
    September 23rd, 2011

48. Just going thru some old stuff and I came across this and looks like i posted something almost a year ago and never followed up. Yes Mike, I was paying attention. But maybe simply got tired reading all this back and forth bickering- (who knows?) anymore so it looks like I posted to what, change the subject maybe? Or direct people somewhere? Anyway, it’s not important now. People will decide for themselves what works for them and what doesn’t.

    Seems to me that although your feedback was sincere, maybe you could have been more diplomatic. I think I would have been offended too (not by the content but by the tone).

    Steven had recently sent me something that looked to be insulting but I could not understand what he was implying. I asked him for clarification and I never received any more fromm him. I think I posted a discussion on Linked In asking for others’ input on p2p and he thought I was criticizing his company- I said nothing about anyone or any company at all.

    BTW, I notice that many of these replies start off with “Wow”; Strange… This leads me to wonder if these are indeed real responses.

    Robert
    March 14th, 2012

49. PS: If anyone is reading this (it’s an old post now) please forgive the couple of errors in my previous post as apparently I cannot correct them. I am definitely NOT taking sides here, just being “honest”, as everyone seems to want that.

    I know how time consuming it is to run even a small website. I ask for feedback all the time. This is the only way we can improve. If someone has anything really negative to say, I ask want to address me personally, not walk out in the middle of the room and “vent” simply to “rally the troops”. I would of course expect the latter to happen if we did nothing to resolve their issue. Thank You!

    Robert
    March 14th, 2012

50. Hey Robert!

    No worries, and no apologies needed.
    1. I actually thought your “post with us for free” comment was a spambot..l good to know you’re a human. Heh. Please feel free to post the link that I deleted thinking it was an email harvester.

    2. There are a lot of Wow comments, but none are fake (that I know of). I don’t know Miguel and John, but Sam Aaron, Josh, and Kevin Cooke are friends of mine. The one I’m sure is fake is “ghost ride that whip” but damn if that just ain’t funny. I think there are a lot of wow’s because… well… Steven’s resonponses are that of a 12 year old. A natural response as it were.

    3. To this day, I still get an occasional email (even a couple of text messages) from strangers thanking me for the info. I even made friends with a voice talent in Sonoma, CA who disagrees with me about Voice123, so I can whole heartedly say that they’re all different people.

    I feel good about my post and I still believe that Voice123 and sites like it who take large amounts of money from aspiring, hopeful, even naive actors are the lowest form of carpetbaggers in the VO biz.

    Think about it: if you are good at the craft of acting/VO work, you will get an agent. Moreover, who is paying for the creative production and media buy for a project? Not the talent. The end client is. So ask yourself once again, if the client can afford thousands if not tens of thousands in media buy costs, why can’t they afford a reasonable rate for talent, and why would they be looking at a site filled with armatures? Well…maybe those clients are new to production and talent, maybe they don’t care if the talent is any good, or maybe they’re just greedy. Don’t know.

    The point is, VO work is an acting career, it’s not just taking into a mic and getting paid. Sites like Voice123 will never really tell you or illustrate this fact because of the high yearly rate they charge desperate talent. If they had any balls, they would charge access to those seeking high-quality talent.

    Mike Vaughn
    March 14th, 2012

51. Thanks for your response Mike! Actually when I saw your comment yesterday I went to see how I can delete my link so you did not think I was spamming but I could not find how to do it and as far as I can see, it is still there. Looking back at how my post appears, I can see how you thought I was “out in space”!

    Yes indeed, VO is just like “regular” acting. Too many go into this thinking that it will be easy and is even as mere stepping stone to something bigger and better. If you looked at my site you will see many like this and many also with the “entitlement” attitude. Those types simply submitted a profile at one time and have never checked back that I can tell. Someday I will go in and “clean house”, deleting dormant members but right now I am just leaving them there for the purpose of sourcing advertisers when I can start that (just like newspapers do with subscribers). After all they still are members and they still receive all correspondence from us.

    While I don’t really have strong opinions on P2P one way or the other, I agree with much of what you said and have also seen other sites that do charge the voice seeker rather than the voice provider. As far as Stephen (V123) is concerned, like I said, he sent me something through Linked In a few months ago that I thought was completely uncalled for. I asked him for clarification and he never replied. I have no respect for that, and that is all I can say about my personal experience with him. You have had far more interaction.

    Members of our site are always posting discussions about P2P also and I guess he took something personally which I have heard he does a lot.

    I am also a member of V123 as well as Voices but have never become a premium member of either nor do I plan to. Therefore I do not have as much info about the inner workings as you and others do. I am an old radio guy who actually did a lot of VO work too but was out of the business for about 15 years. I always thought about getting back into it (VO, not radio anymore) and I quickly saw how different it is now, mostly due to the Internet.

    I started my site because I saw others similar and decided to also create a simple place for others to mingle and exchange ideas and go this route instead of marketing myself as I do enjoy the marketing challenges as well as SEO, etc. The site is free to all and all we ask is if they donate a whopping $25 we will make them a “Featured Member” for a year. There are also a few other perks and I am so thankful for these who donate, especially the ones that did so early on when we first started.

    We have a lot of fine folks, from ambitious / eager newbies to seasoned pros, and I value my working relationship with (almost!) each and every one of them.

    Thanks Mike, and I look forward to hearing (reading) more from you!

    Robert
    March 15th, 2012

52. Mike, Thanks for registering for the site; Hopefully you will see value in it- Please submit any feedback you have too!

    Thanks, Robert

    Robert
    March 16th, 2012

53. Well, I WAS searching for voice123 on google, now not so much.

    Stevensulliedvoice123
    April 18th, 2012

54. This has been so interesting to read and take in. I finished VO lessons last year November…I was given ‘instructions’ from my teacher about V123 ‘will be your bread and butter’……I have been on it since January of this year….out of 46 audtions…I had 5 finalist listings as 1# and not one of these people have ever gotten in touch with me and therefore I feel as if my ‘sh@!’ was stolen and haven’t seen one penny in my paypal account….I’m a newbie and I damn sure didnt sign up for this!!! I was also told that agents get you no where….now after reading this and looking at Mike V’s website ….Let’s say now ‘I know better’…I’m definetly doing my research and homework….Not that voice 123 is bad it has its ‘balancement’ …but still …(crickets churping)……

    JB
    May 3rd, 2012

55. You know I loves me some gentle ass-kissing, so thanks for that JB. Heh.

    There is a chance that your auditions were used, but I’ll say, it’s probably not as much as you may be thinking. It depends on how good your auditions sounded, the client, the usage, etc. And this isn’t a unique problem to Voice123, but it just happens to be easier for clients since Voice123 won’t be going after clients who don’t pay.

    So… I’d recommend you search around the web for the projects you auditioned for (google, youtube, fb) and if the projects are live and see if it’s your voice. If it is… lawyer time, because punitive damages put it over small-claim courts.

    I really hope your voice wasn’t used and abused, and I hope you find a good agent to rep you since you seem to be getting callbacks at least.
    Good luck and best wishes.
    Sincerely,
    -mv

    MikeV
    May 3rd, 2012

56. Very sad, indeed. If Voice123 has a website designed to ‘allow’ so-called ‘Clients’ to use and abuse Voice Over Talent. This is very unprofessional and sounds like a scam if any of it is true. Money, greed, opportunistic society is destroying us all.

    James
    August 8th, 2012

57. Been in the biz for 30 years. Pays all the bills and then some. PTP is bullshit. Finding an VO agent in every middle to major market nationwide is the only way to go. Once you get one,two or three or twenty call your agency rep 3 times a week at cocktail hour…have a 3 minute conversation about life, no more. Keep banging the phones and sending out your demo to every possible agent in every possible city. Follow up with the call. If you don’t get through, keep calling. Make sure your studio is up to date and clean. Then make some more calls. Sell yourself. Sell, sell, sell. It’s the only way to be in this business…connection…
    connection…connection. After all we’re in the communication business, right! Yeah! Dave.

    Dave Roberts
    October 28th, 2012

58. I went to google to search for Voice123 and stumbled upon this blog. Mike was a bit rough around the edges which I would expect with someone not happy with the service. The reply Voice123 gave was most appalling. Utterly unprofessional, unapologetic, and became sorta childish and foolish. Any possibility of doing business with this company now, would also be foolish.

    Anna
    February 1st, 2013

59. Interesting comments but more important is the fact that there are far too many untrained v/os on this sight.
    It’s very difficult to refuse money when the
    applicant is not trained. You have to pay your rent but it does lower the standards.
    Voplanet sets a high standard.
    Cheers
    Steve

    steve hudson
    February 3rd, 2013

60. Mr. Hudson.
    Your message is confusing.
    1. Are you saying there are too many untrained VO talent on Voice123? If “yes,” I agree. And isn’t interesting how much Voice123 charges these naive newbies.

    2. I don’t get the comment “It’s difficult to refuse money when applicant is not trained” at all. Are you saying untrained talent will work for cheap? I also agree if that’s what you’re saying, but just take a look at Celebrities doing commercial work and you need not look far to find examples of everyone doing any gig they can get their hands on regardless of status or pay.

    Lastly, while I have zero experience with VO Planet, 100% of talent I’ve talked to who have dealt with VO Planet, only have negative things to say about Donna and her service. I think the pending lawsuits against her say more about her and any “high standard” that you bring up. The best way for talent to get work is thru trusted agents and thru their own efforts. Paying a website $350+ for access to auditions is silly and unnecessary.

    Thanks for the comment, Steve.
    -mv

    MikeV
    February 3rd, 2013

61. Currently I am considering using your service. Customer service is important to me. Recently I found an article online which gave me pause. Could you address the comments made on this page: http://www.mikevaughn.com/hownottomakeit/2010/04/trust-me-voice123-you-really-dont-want-my-opinion/

    I’ll wait to hear from you before I decide.

    Response from Voice123:

    Thank you for contacting Voice123!

    We have received your inquiry and are assigning it to a Casting Ninja. To help track your inquiry we have generated a reference number. Your ticket code is LTK53308541800X. Please use this code in any further communication.

    Please remember that at Voice123 our highest priority is your 100% satisfaction!

    You may also drop us a quick note on Facebook (http://facebook.com/voice123) or Twitter (http://twitter.com/voice123) with your questions, comments or ideas. We will be pleased to hear from you!

    Sincerely,
    The Voice123 Casting Advisory Team

    C.James
    February 10th, 2013

62. Hello!

    Thank you for your interest in Voice123!

    I can see how this article, and the comments folowing would be concerning to you. The employee at the center of that article, Steven Lowell, is no longer with our company and had not been an active customer service team member for quite some time before his departure, though he did have other roles within the company.

    Voice123 takes customer service seriously, and our Casting Advisory Team (which we more commonly call Casting Ninjas) is made up primarily of voice talent to be better able to relate to our customer base. We’re a small Team of six, so we are able to get to know our users pretty well, and we offer customer service via phone, chat, and e-mail seven days a week ( Mon – Friday 9 am – Midnight EST Sat/Sun 11 am – 6 pm EST).

    I hope this addresses your concerns, but if not, or you have any other questions for us, please let us know!

    C.James
    February 10th, 2013

63. Hi Mike,

    I was thinking, very seriously, about signing up to V123 this morning. I’ve been a standard member for a year or so but it’s only been a halfhearted effort till now so I wasn’t really expecting anything. I’m glad that I stumbled across your blog and will most definitely not be upgrading my membership. 

    I’ve seen and heard the examples of your work and to me it is very impressive. At this point, the only difference between us is that you are ‘there’ and I am not. But I would like to be. In all walks of life there really is rarely any substitution for hard work and effort. I suspect that sites like V123 give a lot of false hope to naive wannabes, a lot who think that merely by saying “Yes I’m british, I can also do a scouse accent, a brummie accent, a passable American accent, my characterisation is ………. blah blah blah” will have offers rolling in from all corners. 

    But,  it’s very difficult for me, and no doubt a lot of others, to know where to begin as there  are so many differing opinions. Newbies like me though need to be told, in all honesty, whether we stand a chance, without being charged for that opinion.  

    Most of us new starters are, in a lot of ways, much more fortunate than the old-school artists purely because we have easier access to information and tools to create a half decent demo.  So please, Mike and others, tell me where to begin. What should my voice resume consist of? Who do I contact? I’m based in London, should I include the USA as a target initially? Should I expect a lot of knock-backs as if touting a manuscript for a new book? Where are the forums, if they exist, where other wannabes like me can communicate and exchange ideas and information? I want to be told the bottom line rather than be told “yeah it’s easy, just give us your money and speak into this microphone”

    I’m  enjoying your blog immensley and looking forward to your reply, keep up the good work.

    thanks and regards,

    Gary H.

    Gary H
    February 17th, 2013

64. Gary.
    Thanks for reading and replying. I’ll takle your questions and comments as best I can.

    You state: “Newbies… need to be told whether we stand a chance, without being charged for that opinion.”

    I don’t necessarily agree. There are a lot of so-called experts who have their idea of what will work and what won’t and many of those people don’t even book talent. Of course, charging for an opinion seems silly to me, so there I agree, but I had an agent early on tell me that my teeth weren’t white enough to work on-camera. 4 years later, I’m working and she’s no where to be found. So whether your stand a chance is really up to you and your efforts.

    You state: “Most of us new starters are, in a lot of ways, much more fortunate than the old-school artists purely because we have easier access to information and tools to create a half decent demo.”

    Uh… not here in Los Angeles. Those you might consider old-school are not only jumping aboard and accessing the same tech and info you are, but they also have something far more important: relationships (and experience). Also, take note of all the A-list celebrities now entering the once taboo world of VO, TV, and commercials. There’s more competition than ever and I’m a nobody actor who frequently looses auditions to very well-known talent.

    You ask: “tell me where to begin. What should my voice resume consist of? Who do I contact? I’m based in London, should I include the USA as a target initially? Should I expect a lot of knock-backs as if touting a manuscript for a new book? Where are the forums, if they exist, where other wannabes like me can communicate and exchange ideas and information? I want to be told the bottom line rather than be told “yeah it’s easy, just give us your money and speak into this microphone”

    Uh, google?
    Seriously, that’s a ton of questions that could be answered in often contradicting ways. Everyone has a different story on how they got into this line of work. Also, would you ask a surgeon, plumber, or pro-snowboarder “where to begin?” It’s no different. You train and you do. Bam. Easy to say, hard to actually do. This all takes time.

    That said, begin by doing what you can to be the absolute best actor you can be. Take reputable classes in acting (not necessarily VO focused), and improv classes. Learn all you can about the acting craft, it’s business, and the technical inner workings. Listen to KCRW’s “The Business,” read the trades for your area AND LA/NY. Understand what’s going on. Your voice-resume (I assume you mean demos) should consist of actual work, which you can get by helping out friends, student projects, recording at home, workout groups, etc. Know that the vo resume/demo is really only there to help you get an agent. You can send your demo and work samples to guys like me and ask for an opinion (which is free), but again, we may or may not be of much help. I don’t know the London market, and I don’t pursue it. You targeting the USA? Maybe. Are you up for the late hours? How’s your studio sound? You got ISDN/Source-Connect? Aka: I, personally, wouldn’t pursue an overseas market too much, but I have gotten a handful of gigs in 8 years from Ireland, Germany and France. Knock-backs are the name of the game. For every 100 auditions I send out, if I land ONE I’m considered to be doing well. Forums? Google. They’re everywhere and many are ready to sell you stuff. I like the VO-BB (http://www.vo-bb.com/phpBB2/) and voice talent’s personal blogs you find via google searches. But IMHO, it’s best to train as an actor, learn the craft, learn the biz, work as you train, and find good agents or managers to rep you once you’re ready. Oh, and go to VoiceBank.net, look at the demos and see where you stand with all those working talent.

    Again, you’re welcome to send me demos and I’ll give you my $.002 which is what my opinion is worth. Heh.
    Good luck mate.
    -mv

    MikeV
    February 20th, 2013

65. Thanks Mike,

    It’s refreshing to receive honest, non-patronising, practical advice. Remember me, I’ll be back (sorry!) When I get my first gig in the states, I’ll drop by and buy you a beer.

    Keep on keepin’ on mate.

    Gary H.

    Gary H
    February 23rd, 2013

66. Hilarious! Just the best beat-down of a clown I’ve ever read. I’ve been a “standard” member of Voice123 for 3 or 4 years and it’s been a complete waste of time. The station where my shows are cleared is being sold this summer so I was thinking of a new plan – going back to Voice123 and checking out their “premium” service in order to maybe do some VO work. Ha! They’ve changed the price to $295, but now there’s an “invitation only” service as well. Typical PTP, reminds me of the people that pay to go to France and pay to harvest grapes for a week. The French farmers must laugh all the way to the bank. MV you are correct – I think I’ll save my money and go back to college and take a couple of acting classes. I know one of the instructors here at our local community college and he’s old school from Hollywood and all around great guy. Anyway thanks for saving me the money. Nice work.

    Scott
    March 5th, 2013

67. Thank you Mike. The response from Steven was so unprofessional and in bad taste (No excuses V123) I would NEVER use V123. It sounds like a ‘Complete Waste of Time and rip-off’. Who pays to give your hard work to a so-called ‘Client’ you’re NOT allowed to know or contact? If you get a #1 Rating you probably will never get the job anyway or get paid. What does #1 mean anyway! lol Get an Agent and get auditions regularly with people you can SEE and talk to or get a job. It’s that simple. It’s the world of Virtual Reality. Like going to Las Vegas. A nightmare if you ask me.computers have changed our reality on planet earth. Some are makng great money ‘using this virtual reality’ to their benefit and selling ‘Hope’. Sad! $$$ Again, V123 response was DISGUSTING! gf

    Giacomo Ferrario
    May 4th, 2013

68. Thanks for the note, Giacomo. I agree that the lack of protection and an arbitrary ranking system really just speaks to Voice123’s true business model which is “take money from naive vo performers.” Typically an easy pool to pluck from.

    But I don’t think this is limited to on-line, or as you put it “virtual reality” operators. There have always been (and still are) those who promise fortunes for a small price regardless of the medium they use. You’ll still find shady agents who tell you (in person) to use their photographer or demo producer so they can get their kickbacks. Voice123 simply taped into a stream of available money. So doesn’t most of the blame belong to the actor who pays them? What about those of us in the industry who don’t speak up against this not-so-great model? And yeah, I’m looking at you SAG-AFTRA. Where’s the education so all talent, new and old, can learn the facts? Huh?

    I’m a huge fan of the computer/web and tech in general. The vast majority of my work is over email with people I rarely, if ever, see in person; Moreover, all this technology puts my acting work in places I never thought of before (I have clients in Ireland, France, even the exotic country of Ohio… ha). What’s the other option? Driving around LA stressing to make it to a dozen auditions and letting some kid out of college direct your audition while hitting record on a reel-to-reel? I’m glad those days are (kinda) disappearing. Yeah, technology has added a ton of competitors to the market, but it’s also added more work (games, web-series, more tv stations). I’ve also found that while there are more “competitors” the actual “competition” isn’t that large. Most audition submissions are crap. So maybe should all embrace technology PLUS good ole’ fashion networking, AND solid actor training?

    Ok, sorry for the rant (I’m just procrastinating some housework). I never expected this post to keep going like this but it seems to be helping few people save $350 a year and work the agent/audition route, so yeeeah!

    Thanks again for the note.
    -mv

    MikeV
    May 4th, 2013

69. Very interesting comments. It just amazes me MikeV that if you are a professional working voice talent, how do you have so much time on your hands to leave so many comments and responses on here? Seeing it takes about 1 minute to write an average 0f 100 words. You have some serious time invested in your “Commenting”

    William
    May 31st, 2013

70. Uhh, 1. Most comments aren’t mine. 2. Most full time actors have a lot of free time (I’m typing this while in line at the bank btw). 3. Most everyone wastes time in a cubicle so you can get off your ‘no-time’ high horse now. 4. This post has helped other actors, so maybe it’s worth the 2-3 hours total I’ve spent on it, don’t you think?

    MikeV
    May 31st, 2013

71. Hey Mike,
    Wow! It has been a long time since this disaster, hasn’t it? 🙂 I never told anyone this, but this blog got me fired, and I had to beg to keep my job. They agreed to take me back because the voice talent support I received was huge. But that’s all done now. If anything, you did get some great SEO exposure out of this. You still do.

    Just an update, I left V123 back in January 2013. I started working as a voice talent agent, and do lots of freelance casting, too, because people find me online and ask to be connected to talent that I know.

    When I look back at everything, I regret this happened, but I can boldly say I have done more for voice talent, and still do, than any “bad day” on this blog ever did. I can measure how much I have helped people in bigger dollars now, and that’s important to me.

    Please take care. It’s a small industry, and given my new work, I am sure we will cross paths soon. 🙂

    Btw…heard you in Rise of Nightmares. Cool work! 🙂

    Best to all of you,
    Steven

    Steven L
    June 8th, 2013

72. Wow. This blog seems pretty ridiculous. I’m a 27 year old voice actor. I don’t use Voice123 because Im more than happy at Voices.com, but its the same sort of site. I have MORE than paid for the $300 membership fee by very large multiples. To slam any of these sites seems pretty naive at best. My success with Voices has been so great that I have joined other sites particular to my region and those have lead to even more absolutely insane success. Mind you, this time last year I had never voiced a single spot in my life, but thanks to these sites, you’ve probably heard my voice. Im beginning to consider doing voice work full time as I often make considerably more in an hour than I do as a full time commercial producer. So… theres my take on pay sites.

    Good luck.

    Drew
    August 14th, 2013

73. For those of you that decide to try a p2p site and are worried about people using your submitted demo without paying you. Change the demo. Use a different company name or change the dates, etc. If they are legitimate they won’t care.
    If you are looking for advice on how to start in voice over and you live in a major market look at “meetup.” Here vo artists get together regularly for “free”. Most of the people in VO are really nice and more than willing to talk to you.
    If you meet with other talent ask them for suggestions for finding good honest agents. That’s the trick!

    Jim
    August 21st, 2013

74. Ridiculous? Well, you did respond, no?
    Not to challenge you too much Drew, but you’ve “paid for the $300 membership fee by very large multiples.”
    Fantastic. Congratz. So if that was work you got via an agent, then you should have made either $3000 in union work (10% to agent), or $1,500 in non-union work in one year (at minimum) to cover the $300 fee.

    Did you make at least that?
    Great.

    Now double it for every other P2P site you’ve paid for.
    Remember, these sites are charging you in advance their “agent fee” as it were.

    Did you still make enough to pay everyone 10-20%? I hope so.

    Have I heard your voice?
    Uh, I have no idea since I can’t find a link to your site, demos, imdb page… all we have is an email to Full Sail University.

    I’m stoked that you’re “consider[ing] doing voice work full time as [you] often make considerably more in an hour than [you] do as a full time commercial producer.”

    (Two quick side notes: 1. you probably need to ask for a raise at your producer job, and 2. you do know that we actors don’t get to bill 40 hours a week, right? Yeah, a few hundred (or thousand) a hour is a lot, but it may be the only hour you work for quite some time.)

    Ok, so let’s do this: the minute you are a full-time WORKING actor, let me know, I’ll fly out to your location and buy you a beer or whisky and toast you for becoming a true professional in what I consider the best job in the world. Then you can tell me if you STILL have the same opinion of p2p sites now that your full-time.

    That fair?
    -mv

    MikeV
    August 21st, 2013

75. Hi Jim.
    Good suggestions. Thanks.
    Just one thing tho: the concern is not so much with clients using demos/auditions as finished products as much as it is with BOOKED and completed projects. Jobs booked thru the P2P sites don’t actually guarantee any protection, collection, and not even payment from booked work. They are just the website the client found you on. You are responsible from collecting from the client that booked you. I’d rather have a rep handle that stuff so I can concentrate on my work and not accounts receivable.
    Thanks man.
    -mv

    MikeV
    August 21st, 2013

76. A little research certainly saved a few bucks. Been there and done that and still learning, but love being an Actor and Voice Artist. A great read Mike V.

    Many thanks

    Chris Crash from Downunder

    Chris Crash Carpenter Australia
    August 25th, 2013

77. Hi Mike,

    Thanks for the blog post! I have been floundering over whether I should pony up the dough or not for Voice123 again (I did so a few years ago and was not impressed). After reading this exchange, no dice.

    I mean, I didn’t really want to sign up for it, but I want access to auditions. I have a voices.com account and I have been booking pretty consistently, but the good jobs are so scarce. I also have an agent in Texas, but I don’t get much from them. (Just had a callback for PBS promos recently at least.)

    All this rambling aside, I was wondering if you had any advice on reaching agents. (Really want to focus in LA; I live in the area.) I have gotten good feedback about my demos, and when I have read in front of agents in classes as well. I just sent out a round of my demos a couple of months ago, and I am gearing up to do it again, but I feel as if I am shouting to no one.

    I have done the thing before, too, where I essentially pay to get in front of a vo agent or casting director (thinly veiled as a “learning experience”, which granted, it sometimes actually is, but usually is more like $100/10 minutes of exposure). Do you think those kind of events is actually useful or just a waste of money? I also go to networking events and such, but for VO, they are few-and-far between.

    Thanks for any advice. Don’t worry too, I have done my research and spoken to a ton of people, and they always have separate opinions about what is best. (Meaning: I have done my homework.) I appreciate your candor, so I felt the need to ask you as well. (No worries if you can’t reply!)

    I am just so darn tired of being gouged for money every time I turn around. I know, especially in this business, it takes a great investment to make any sort of inroads into a possible career. (With demos, professional equipment, marketing, classes, and a whisperoom later, I am definitely not in the black in this business yet.) I just want to work! Or at least have the opportunity to work. It is so darn frustrating when you know you CAN do it, but don’t have any way TO do it.

    Anyway, sorry for the long post. And thank you for your original blog, and any answer to this question as well.

    Thanks!

    Stephanie

    Stephanie
    August 31st, 2013

78. Well, it sounds like you’re doing things that need to be done, Stephanie. And just like any gig, it takes time and constant effort. There’s no magic bullet or email to get you more work/agents/money.

    I’m finding that the best way talent are finding reps that are a good fit for them is two fold: 1. The talent really has all their shit together and is ready to work – good demos, actual work samples, resume, website, listed on actor websites, a functioning home studio, and yes, even the dreaded headhshots. And 2. a referral from another talent within that agency. I will recommend talent who I love and know are professional to my agents if I think there’s a good fit. A lot of times I may love the talent, but they may not be so great at recording from home, so that means they may not be right for my agent. I also can’t refer someone I don’t know since it could diminish my reputation. So, yeah, have your stuff super tight and start looking for talent who are represented by agents who do not have a lot of your type. Voicebank.net and IMDB will clue you in on that agents roster as well.

    Ok, then you bring up the workshop… a hot button issue to say the least.
    I’m not a fan of the concept of actors paying to be seen by agents, managers, and casting directors. BUT… I’ll admit that I do on-camera workshops every now and then and maybe one VO workshop a year (if that). I can’t recommend them to talent who aren’t great at cold reads or just plain new to the industry talent. If you’re not skilled at the workshop, you’re not going to leave a good impression, so I’d say workshops are best left to those who are truly ready to work. BUT you also don’t just go to ANY workshop. You research the hell out of the people attending (see imdb pro) and make sure they 1. book your type, and 2. are WORKING. There are as many legit casting directors doing these workshops as there casting directors who only make a living doing the workshops. It’s not hard to figure out who is who once you look at the credits. Of the 30 workshops I’ve done since 2008, I’ve been called in about 12 times and booked 3 gigs from them. Also, I’ve paid $25-$45 for on-cam workshops and up to $125 for VO workshops. Again, do your research and be a very, very good cold reader. Otherwise, skip ’em.

    I’m with you on the actor gouging. There’s no shortage of people with little-to-no actual talent or skill willing to take money from the most gullible. Glad to hear to you’re doing the research and figuring it out before spending the bucks. Your post is one good reason why I put this up about Voice123. Since actors don’t seem to have a good advocate for this stuff (uhh-hem.. SAG-AFTRA…cough, cough) we should look out for each other when we can.

    Thanks again, Stephanie.

    MikeV
    September 5th, 2013

79. Gotta tell yah. I’ve never really been a fan of PTP…and I dropped off the Voice 123 radar a year ago…and I still get 15-20 emails a day telling me what audition I missed/passed up. I never received this many emails to audition for from this outfit when I was a premium subscriber, at best it was 2 or 3 a day. And now, because I’m not paying, I’m getting bombarded 20 A DAY with “WHAT I FREAKIN’ MISSED?” EXCUSE ME! Has Voice 123 ever heard of Shakespeare’s quote, “Me thinks thou doth protest too much.”? Voice 123 is just that. “Pushing business for Pushing’s sake.” That’s why Steve (bless his heart) Lovell left. He finally got it. Although he did his best, his employment days were numbered because he’s a stand up guy. And he also got tired of dealing with clients that would only pay a ridiculously low fee for a quality voice over. Hell, those voice seekers that tapped into Voice123 are still in their 20’s slogging out a living working for a creative director (who doesn’t know any better) in an agency (that doesn’t know any better) that set them on their task; “Find me a quality voice-over guy or gal that can deliver our half hour presentation and is really experienced! By the way, our budget is $100.00. Get back to me Sophie when you have our VOICE!” What a joke! (lol!) You see, the younger generation has no clue, no taste, and no training, and no history-nothing to measure it against! Have they watched/listened to the great voices behind the NFL inthe 80’s? No. Have they been subjected to the great voices and journalistic minds behind a great network like CBS? No. Have they been ringside listening to a commentator describing in detail how a worldwide boxing match is going such as the great “Howard Cosell?” No. They’re selfishly and with their entitlement attitude entirely clueless and in the long run they travel the road called the dumb down principle. Same thing happened to the music business. Nowadays, everybody with a studio has a chance to be a 15 minute star. That’s not a career. That’s not a job. And it certainly has “no legs” as we say in the business, meaning you’ll score once, but then it’s over! (“Welcome Oh great one hit wonder!”) Ever heard that phrase? And here’s another phrase that must be remembered; “Keep your day job.” You never know when the wind will change, and a new producer without warning will change your game. I’ve had it happen to me a couple of times after several years of stellar relationships and great work…and then “POOF” it’s gone to someone else, and you must go back to the drawing board and re-invent yourself. Not fun, I can assure you…but that’s the VO life, the actors life, the freelance writers life and a bunch more! You gotta say, “C’est la vie” and get cracking once again! Sorry for going on so long in this diatribe…but that’s okay. If you’re a successful freelancer, you’ve got time to read…and I know you do! All My Best, Dave.

    Dave Roberts
    October 1st, 2013

80. We offer our award winning services in Voice for commercials, Voice for the actor, Voice jobs and Voice over artist.

    Voice For The Actor
    October 28th, 2013

81. Uhhh… so is this a bad attempt at self promotion, Mr. Voice for the Actor (andrewson.garge@gmail.com), or are you mocking Voice123? I’m getting old and maybe I’m missing the hipster humor here.

    MikeV
    October 28th, 2013

82. WOW! Voice123, if I knew nothing else about you but the responses I have just read, I would NEVER in my life deal with you. I am a 30+ year corporate professional and I have run across many individuals and companies who handle matters the way you are currently. Those people/companies NEVER received ANY work from me and were blacklisted VEHEMENTLY! Everything you put out is a reflection on you and what you just put out says that you are NOT someone that is worthy of doing business with. ALL of your ideas and policies are now in question and I WILL NOT do business with questionable people/companies. Your best answer would have been, “Thank you for your feedback. Best of luck”. Instead you show how absolutely unprofessional you are.

    Criticism is something you invite when you put yourself and/or your company out into the main stream. How you handle/respond to criticism is how you will actually be judged. As a non paying member on the fence about joining, I now will NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR COMPANY. More than that, I JUST BECAME A PROPONENT AGAINST your company and will shout from the roof tops, “STAY AWAY from Voice123”!

    Geoffrey Gilbert
    April 1st, 2014

83. I just tried to cancel my subscription and your website won’t allow me to and no one is answering your phones.

    That says VOLUMES about you! It is obvious from your other bullshit responses that you monitor this. You have my email address. CANCEL MY ACCOUNT NOW!

    Geoffrey Gilbert
    April 1st, 2014

84. Uhm… Geoffrey, I’m not sure voice123 is reading this and if I could cancel your account I would. Heh. Best of luck with them. -mv

    MikeV
    April 1st, 2014

85. MikeV,

    Are you saying that you don’t work for/represent Voice123?

    Geoffrey Gilbert
    April 2nd, 2014

86. I don’t, no. I’m Mike Vaughn, voice talent and author of this blog (see the url in your browser? yeah, should start with mikevaughn.com, right).

    It was “Steven L” now name reads “unhappy” for some reason, who worked for Voice123 and provided the responses. But he also later apologizes and notes that he left Voice123. So yeah, no one from Voice123 is reading this as far as I know. You might need to direct your subscription request to the support tab on their site.

    MikeV
    April 3rd, 2014

87. Hey there,

    Stumbled across this while on the way to look up other things. I totally agree with you Mike. I was a premium subscriber at V123 (yes I fell for it), and I can honestly say, lesson learned. That said, do you have any recommendations on hooking up with a casting agent? Thanks.

    Tom Belian
    April 23rd, 2014

88. Hey Tom.

    So… yes and no on the casting agent thing.

    “Hooking up” with a CD as you put it requires dating skills and finesse (which I don’t have). Ha. Kidding.

    First, relationships are good. Trusted talent always get called in first. So anyone you meet that you like, that you have a connection with is great (personally and professionally, right?)

    In fact, the on-cam acting world has no shortage of places where you can pay to do a cold read, or a prepared scene, in front of a casting director (I’m even doing on this Sat).

    AND the VO world has these “casting workshops” as well, but the difference between on-cam and VO is 1.) price (the vo ones are much more expensive) and 2.) there’s more “we’re here to learn” in the VO ones, wherein, the on-cam, it’s more “I’m here to show you who I am.”

    Which leads to a couple of comments I’ve heard from fellow VO talent and workshop casting directors which were both along the lines of “if you’re in the VO workshop, you’re probably new to the world of VO.” Which is fine if you are, but if you have credits, you can see how this shift may not help because…..

    98% of all my VO work comes from my agents (yes, that’s plural) that we all have to audition for.

    I’ve also had two VO casting directors say, “we don’t want to hear from talent directly, even if we know you. It’s too much. We already have 1800 submissions for each role and we’re just looking for the perfect fit right off the bat.”

    On the other hand, some on-cam casting types like to occasionally hear from talent.

    Keep in mind that it’s soo easy to just email sides and email back a VO audition that this process is what VO has become.

    Last point, those directors, producers, writers, etc. that I’ve worked with in the on-cam world will eventually find out that I do VO and many of them have come back and booked me for VO work directly. Yeeeeeeah relationships!

    But yeah, new VO work and clients? Well, it’s the audition from your agent first, then maybe you’ll form a relationship with those people after a gig or eight.

    So, try some workshops if you can (and if the person “teaching” is legit), but otherwise spend your time getting training and the right agent/reps for you, and make every audition count. Don’t worry about VO casting directors too much, they’ll come to you if your auditions are killer.

    MikeV
    April 23rd, 2014

89. I froze my premium subscription in 2007 after applying myself to 50 leads with no call backs.

    Now I am trying to unfreeze this membership. I got one reply from a Voice123 employee asking about my email. I gave my email address and haven’t heard a word back in over 2 days.

    I wanted to originally get my subscription fee refunded, but they wouldn’t allow it. Instead, my subscription would be froze until such time that I would go back and start going again.

    I work at a radio station now, and we’re updating the station image and I want to start HIRING others to do Voice work through my account.

    But this whole BS about them NOT having a phone number anymore and the NON-RESPONSE to my EMAILS (beyond the first) is aggravating.

    My opinion of Voice123 is dropping further than it dropped after sinking the capital into the premium subscription, which didn’t help.

    Daniel
    August 13th, 2014

90. I wasted my $300.00 on Voice123. Despite being a professional and well known talent, I could not book a single job with them and it was a pretty frustrating thing to go through. Never again. Not recommended. Look for an agent or make yourself available to local studios instead.

    Mike Lee
    September 11th, 2014

91. My two years with V123 have been solid. It’s hard work but I’ve been paid for every job for which I’ve been hired. I simply send an invoice. I have repeat clients and send out greeting emails to remind them I’m around. I have certainly made back well over the amount I’ve spent on the subscription fee.

    Since I’m an absolute VO newbie, this was the only route I knew to try. I will want to move on when I can but I do not know how to attract agents for now, especially with no connections. So this is it….and it’s been alright. We will see how I feel in a couple more years. Beginners’ luck?

    J Nice
    December 5th, 2014

92. Thanks for the note Jennifer.

    You’re actually the very first person I’ve ever heard say that “[I] made back well over the amount I’ve spent on the subscription fee.” Congratz.

    I don’t want to know your actual numbers, those are respectfully private, but you might want to make sure that whatever you made each year, that the total is no less than at least an 80/20% split. Meaning, if you had gotten these jobs with an agent, you’re payable agent commission on those job would be 10-20% depending (of course you’d owe nothing if you didn’t get any jobs), that aside, compare the fee of Voices123 to your gross income and see if it’s equal to a typical agent commission setup. I think Voice123 costs $395 a year now, yes? That means you’d have to make about $2,000 a year via Voice123 to equal what you’d get with an agent and mostly non-union jobs. You’d have to make at least $3,950 to equal what you’d earn doing union gigs with an agent.

    So, if your income is into the thousands every year, and if you feel the compensation is fair for the effort and usage (reach and frequency), then by all means, yes, this is working for you.

    As for you “not knowing how to attract agents… with no connections,” well… uhh, WORK attracts agents, REPEAT CLIENTS attracts agents, and I assume you have email. Me thinks all you need to do is send some emails out with samples of your work. If I was an agent and you sent me samples of work that actually aired and earned you money, well, I’d be crazy to NOT listen to you.

    If you’re booking gigs and making at least a few grand a year, then you’ll have no problem finding an agent. You just need to pound the pavement a bit.

    Best of luck!
    And thanks again for the great note.
    -mv

    MikeV
    December 6th, 2014

93. Epic post / thread. In doing research on how to better my own web presence as a multimedia performer, I found this and whoops, 45 minutes just slipped away there! Thanks for the chuckles, cringes, and insight. Branding is something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately, and I’m not convinced that a little extra revenue is worth the association with organizations that are even remotely shady.

    And as someone who’s worked in the music biz, I like to think I know shady.

    Cheers.

    Mikael Naramore
    January 3rd, 2015

94. What an interesting find. Currently, V123 is offering their premium membership for $195, through April 8, 2015. Based on what I’ve read here, even at that price, I may pass.

    Brian
    April 2nd, 2015

95. A near half-off sale price sure doesn’t indicate strong demand does it? I’ve heard significantly less people in the vo world talking about Voice123, Voices.com, etc. so I’m guessing business is going elsewhere. My agents keep me very, very busy so at least I’m still happy and lucky.

    MikeV
    April 2nd, 2015

96. Well, thank you for the information you’ve provided about finding agents, Mike. I’m seriously going to give that route a look.

    Brian
    April 2nd, 2015

97. Thanks for starting this blog topic Mike. It was good that you had the courage of your convictions and was prepared to weather the quite outrageous and unprofessional response from 123 – out of which so many readers of this blog have benefited.

    I am a newbie starting out and always like to do my due diligence. Had been poised with “mouse in hand” ready to hand over USD400 to Voice 123. Kind of bitter-sweet though as I had been excited about the prospect of getting decent work. Now I see that the only real working model is the traditional – and proper one – ie working with a an agent who takes his commission from the project fee. As I understand it, if ANY recruitment agency wants to take cash off a job seeker upfront (in ANY industry) run a million miles. Better to start on a solid base though even if it might be harder initially eg to find a good agent who will work tirelessly for me.

    Thanks again for your positive contribution to the VO community.

    Bryan
    June 27th, 2015

98. Ha! I too was poised with mouse in hand at the V123 site.. And, let me tell you, I’m thankful for your blog. In fact, when I take a step back, I feel as though you’ve offered me a moment of clarity. And, although I too had gotten very jazzed at the idea of self-submitting daily auditions form my newly created home studio, I’m glad for the added moment to rethink things…
    I’m an actress in LA, …but barely. And like so many others here, I have a really hard time with finding an agent. Always. I’m in the union, but have no real credits to speak of (well, one, but its more of a glorified one-line extra role than anything), and the thought of starting the agent hunt over again for the umpteenth time, but as a “VO rookie”, well, it makes me go pale in the cheeks…
    I think the reason why I took a slight veer into The World of VO (in the form of 6 months of some awesome, but expensive!, coaching) was to give me the chance to be creative again, to feel like an actor. My day job as catering staff to rich people was making me kinda depressed, while being in the booth was so much fun!
    So, my question is this: I’m sucking it up and starting from square 1. I have a new VO reel that I’m quite pleased with, but I have no idea what to do with it. Physically. And where to find out. For example, should my VO reel be attached to my acting website, or no? Inappropriate? Or should the reel be on a separate “one page” affair? If so, can it be just a self-made Wix site? Or is it smart to have it be real pro- a with a Logo and everything- from the very beginning? If my first name has exotic spelling, can that throw potential clients off, and perhaps make them assume I have an accent? These types of odds and ends I know nothing about, nor where to look for the answers.
    Any hints for a frickin’ “rookie”? (argh) I’m grateful for any input, if you have the time…

    And sidenote: Great blog, Mike. I don’t think your initial response to Steven L. was harsh at all. You gave honest, to-the-point feedback, with maybe a dash of sass for effect :), but he should have been able to handle that. Are you kidding me? He should have been able to handle a lot more. And his reaction really did put the company in a bad light. (I don’t know where he came up with you “spitting in his face”, among other comments. And his very rude statement about Los Angelenos, well, that was just ignorant, at the very least). I’m glad he later apologized. It was the least he could do. I don’t understand people, sometimes…
    So, you keep up the good work, Mike. Balls to the wall!
    Free speech while we still have it!!

    frickin' rookie
    June 30th, 2015

99. So, your questions are mostly about marketing yourself (vo demo on your acting site, logo, name issues, etc.) and the answer is……. “depends.” It’s was the one answer my advertising profesor give us as the all-purpose answer to most marketing questions. And it’s true.

    I can’t tell you what’s right for you. In fact, my site (now in it’s 5th iteration) has run the gambit from listing everything I do, to separtate sites for VO and other stuff, to back now to an actor site with VO and on-cam equally weighted. You can send me your links, demos, etc. and I’m happy to give my opnion, but it’s just that… an opnion.

    There’s no one-size-fits all soulution. I’ve heard the advice that VO peeps should keep their face off their materials out of fear of tainting the image their voice creates in the mind of the listner. Not sure I believe that is always the case.

    As far as what to DO with your demo… well, it does no good sitting on your computer, so get it out (if it’s good and an accurate represation of you and your abilities) and try to connect with an agent who needs your type. That’s the primary purose of a demo in my opnion anyway.

    Good luck and feel free to send me your stuff.
    -mv

    MikeV
    July 16th, 2015

100. MikeV,
     Was looking at the site; not so much anymore. I am a musician, and have success online with Gigmasters for both my full band as well as my solo career. My offline success is my bread and butter; old school walking into a venue and shaking hands, running open mics and networking hard. I am a full time musician making all my financial commitments plus, every month.

     Is there a resource where I can look up an agent or agents?

     Apologies if the questions was already answered; I appreciate your time! 🙂

     Jason

     Jason
     July 19th, 2015

101. Voicebank.net and a pro account on imdb.com

     MikeV
     July 19th, 2015

102. Thanks for this blog. After seeing the childish response from Voices123, I will not be using their service.

     James
     July 24th, 2015

103. Whoever is representing Voices123 is doing a pretty horrible job. I can’t imagine a REAL company EVER doing something like this without fear of relentless, overwhelming backlash.

     Bad form Voices123…..bad form indeed.

     TJ
     October 6th, 2015

104. Wowzers. Thank you ever so much for posting this, Mike. Thank you for taking the time to educate and alert the rest of us so that we don’t make the same mistake others have.

     I have been contemplating putting down $400 for their annual membership for a while now. I find it pretty ludicrous that they do not offer an option to pay monthly- now THAT reminds me of those old “talent agencies” back in the day that would “sign” you and send you to their own headshot studio, only to get the same looking shots as everyone else, and to only be sent to cattle calls or be booked on extra roles. I heard good things about Voice123 on the “Voiceover Insider Podcast”. Funny enough, that episode was about branding. Today, reading the bit in your reply message to Sam regarding how their site could be a detriment to your personal branding, I could not agree more. I have been working so hard at polishing my VO demos and training my voice/machine/moneymaker…most of the demos on the site sound like they were recorded in a bathroom and that no time was taken to study the script before recording.
     I have done quite a bit of browsing to find similar voice types on the site to gauge my competition, and high doubt that they actually pre-screen Premium members; all they ask is for your credit card numbers.
     I understand that we all must start somewhere. I did. But before we go out there and try to market ourselves (whether via agents or websites such as this one), we must be sure that our brand is great. And let’s keep it real; anyone can record a professional sounding demo reel nowadays with either a little bit of creativity, a skilled friend, or a little bit of cash.

     Think I’ll save that $400 and put it towards a good Mic and in-house studio.

     Please keep these blogs going,

     VS

     VS
     December 30th, 2015

105. Wow. I just spent over an hour of my life reading through all of this…Amazing.

     Very sad for Voice123 that they are still losing business for the irresponsible reactive behavior of that individual! Even reading it all and knowing he is no longer employed and it’s been…well 6 years now, I still would have no interest in signing with their company, as it’s simply ludicrous to me that anyone would respond in that manner.

     I have never done VO work or any sort of acting in my life, but have always wondered and felt as though I would love it. I stumbled upon Voice123 out of nowhere and said “OH WOW!? YOU CAN DO THIS ONLINE THIS EASILY!? I JUST HAVE TO RECORD A THING!?”

     I’m glad there is real information here so ignorant ones like myself don’t fall into traps. Thanks for that :).

     Perhaps I will suck it up and conquer my anxiety and sign up for an acting class at our local community college. I feel as though being nearly 30 and never having been in as much as a high school play I would be so far behind the curve! However I’ve always wondered if I’d be any good and you never know if you don’t try.

     Anyhow, thanks for the hour long read. It was significantly entertaining. All the best!

     Brittany
     February 15th, 2016

106. Wow–people are so quick to jump on a bandwagon.

     I’ve been a premium subscriber for years. If anyone is having trouble booking something to pay for the measly annual cost of under $400, there is clearly an issue with that person and their talent/recording quality. If you are truly a professional VO talent, you will recoup the fee almost immediately–then go on to make A LOT more money through bookings.

     Jaimie
     August 15th, 2016

107. Or you know… Have legit agents and reps without paying them upfront and go on to make ALOT more money through bookings. Glad you’re ok spending that kind of money to try and land the kinds of jobs on Voice123 and Voices.com. Also glad aol still serves your email needs.

     I reframed your headline tho: wow-people are quick to point out when others are being taken advantage of.

     MikeV
     August 15th, 2016

108. Hey Mike. I was wondering what the Internetz were thinking about Voice123 and my Google search threw me into the middle of your web site (this thread based on your review, and the subsequent responses). When I first read your review, I didn’t know the 2% I now know about you, I knew 0%, so I read your intentionally-snarky review with the thought that perhaps this guy writing the review personally wasn’t very accomplished or successful and was just some armchair-based arrogant know-it-all-or-he-thinks-he-does human. Then I read the response, I was now feeling I was reading the rantings of an unhinged mega-Troll who was lying when he claimed he somehow represented Voice123 – no professional would do or say anything remotely like that. After reading as much of this as I could handle, based on the fact this thread is now longer than some of the books in the Bible, I finally turned towards your main page and checked out your video section. Naturally, this caused me to completely and totally re-evaluate the person (you) who made that initial snarky commentary about the VO web site. I realized you in fact know what the @*#$^ you’re talking about, and beyond that, damn you are talented, funny, just terrific. I am so impressed with what you’ve done (the little I’ve seen of it) and also the great design of your web site. I’m officially a fan now. Have a great career and rest of your life!

     ThisIsTheList
     September 3rd, 2016

109. Thanks for the kind words. I will say that Stephen contacted me somewhat recently to apologize, but I get it. I was young and hot tempered in my 20’s as well. He just drank too much of the company’s kool-aid at the time. I’m glad this old post lives on to show wanna-be voice-over talent that there are no short-cuts, no one-way or single gatekeeper to get work and get better. Best of luck to you! -mv

     MikeV
     September 3rd, 2016

110. Hello America,
     What an interesting bunch of comments.
     However, there is something missing. There are 2 ways to qualify as a voice over. One of them is to train at a stage school for 2 years.
     The other is to learn a communication technique and there is only one in the world.
     It is taught to the BBC, lecturers and students at Oxford University (and several more),has been accredited by the Law Society and teaches voice overs.
     Voice over agents have to make a profit so they are unlikely to reject applicants. Many of these applicants have been told they have a good voice and should be a voice over.
     I have 10 fingers but don’t ask me to play the violin.
     In the UK the L’oreal TV commercial ends with models saying, ‘because you’re worth it It is the most unatural, insincere delivery I’ve ever heard. 37%of ‘v/os’ are untrained. What does that say about the advertising agency or producer.
     The standard is too low; untrained v/os are unlikely to impress the public and the advertiser is being ripped off.
     Cheers
     Steve Hudson
     Listen to Beverly at
     http://www.voicemaster.co.uk

     steve hudson
     October 8th, 2016

111. Interesting perspective from the U.K. Don’t really know how valid your comments are, but it’s definitely not how it works here in the US. In fact I might argue that an over trained voice is exactly what most producers aren’t looking for. Most of the specs I see are looking for good actors first and foremost, so in that sense I agree with you. But just training in voice alone is a great way to probably not book a job. Also keep in mind that even a good actor who books the job may be directed by the ad agency or client into another direction that isn’t as good a what got them booked. Many great actors are directed into pooptown and we almost never do this stuff in a vacuum.

     MikeV
     October 8th, 2016

112. I appreciate you helping me make my decision!

     Christopher Eaddy
     October 16th, 2016

113. Sheeesh. I’m drained.

     All good points, but too much drama. I have a headache.

     Drew Montgomery
     July 12th, 2017

114. Mike,
     I plan on digesting all this amazing insight and start pounding the pavement!
     In your professional opinion, is utilizing a resource like EdgeStudio.com advisable?
     This is a substantial expense, but is it an investment as well?
     I’m a newbie that almost got suckered into the P2P expense 2x… and don’t want to be suckered again. (Thanks!) 🙂

     Kendall
     December 9th, 2017

115. I don’t have any experience or even second-hand info on EdgeStudio. Glancing at their site it looks like they’re mostly focused on classes and making demos for talent but also offer production and even act as a sort of agent for voice talent with rates they charge for recording usage. I don’t recognize any of the instructors and when I google and IMDB them, I also don’t see any real credits. So while I can’t officially say if they are a valuable resource for VO education, my gut is telling me it leans heavily on getting money from talent as their business model (again, I could be wrong, but it’s my best guess). I’m a fan of good-old-fashioned actor training – theatrical, on-camera, improv, ect. then applying what you learn in a good acting class to VO work in a booth. I always got more training for my money with good theatrical classes than I did with VO focused classes. So, get all the free info you can, find the training program(s) that resonate with you and keep going. That’s my $.0002 worth. That help?

     MikeV
     December 11th, 2017

116. It really does help 🙂 Thank you Mike!

     I think I’ll pass and look for actor training and review networking opportunities online. (I shy away from only networking locally, due to my family moving on a regular basis.)

     Really appreciate the thoughts and I’ll keep reading your blog for advice 🙂

     Cheers!

     Kendall
     December 15th, 2017